Report 1458
Report #1458 Skillset: Skill: Sleeping Org: Shadowdancers Status: Completed Mar 2016 Furies' Decision: Solution 2 to get rid of need for coltsfoot. Will require masochism. Problem: This report aims to address various issues related to Sleeping. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: DREAMWEAVE CONTROL - Dreamweave Control currently makes the Dreamweaver immune to all forms of sleep offense. Since we have removed perfect immunity(poisons trans skill, runic amulets,etc), apply the same change to Control. Change it instead to give a <100% chance to negate a sleep attack. Make it reliable but still allow for a chance to fail. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: DISCIPLINE INSOMNIA - Currently, it is very unwieldly for us to have to smoke coltsfoot to strip insomnia ourselves. Adding in a RELAX INSOMNIA command to the skill would definitely help streamline things. From an offensive viewpoint, people can just forget about keeping a coltsfoot pipe since it doesn't cure any affliction besides insomnia now. This makes forcing someone to smoke coltsfoot moot. This solution also aims to make insomnia stripping forceable again for sleep locks. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: CELESTIALISM - STIGMATA. Currently Celestines wake up from Stigmata damage. This turns the skill into a pseudo-metawake on top of the Metawake skill in Discipline. I suggest changing it such that Celestines do not wake up from Stigmata damage to address this. Player Comments: ---on 2/23 @ 01:20 writes: If it is the consensus that these three points be addressed in different reports, then I shall oblige. ---on 2/23 @ 01:22 writes: No Thank you to solution 2, Relax Insomnia is not needed. If for some reason we go through with that solution, I'd like it to require bal/eq to do, or maybe even require you to be masochistic ---on 2/23 @ 01:25 writes: I'm not familiar enough with the specifics of dreamweaver stuff, but the solutions seem reasonable to me. Not sure if there will be any other considerations, but if there is the lack of objections, I'd support all three. ---on 2/23 @ 01:30 writes: Solution 2 supported as a removal for coltsfoot. Solution 3 I would also support because its the only mechanism that has sleeplockers disabling fae, which I don't think they need given their many offensive/defensive routes and the availability of less powerful generic anti-sleep. I would have to agree that no class should ever have total immunity to another class's kill methods, and Solution 1 making it similar to Institute anti-Aeon seems alright. ---on 2/23 @ 02:47 writes: I don't really feel that we need to bring back sleeplocks. Opposed to Sol 1 (unless we're looking at giving percent chance for brumetower to fail too?). Sol 2 brings up an interesting point in that a dreamweaver can't force someone into dreamrealm if they toss their pipe - maybe attach it onto one of the other cures? As for Sol 3: Stigmata also currently breaks any channeled actions as part of that, I could support it just not counting as 'damage taken' altogether. ---on 2/24 @ 23:44 writes: Any solution is fine. Once report 1360 introduces some new defensive utility to dreamweavers, control won't be the only (very niche) defensive ability anyways. ---on 2/25 @ 01:21 writes: This report addresses Sleeping. Brumetower may be addressed in another report. :) ---on 2/26 @ 05:47 writes: I'm fine with all of these solutions. To me sol. 2 doesn't worry me because you will still need the pooka for metawake. Perhaps we will have to revisit it if it makes killing those without metawake too easy. I agree with Raeri that if sol. 3 is implemented that it should not count as damage taken for other things either. ---on 2/26 @ 23:25 writes: Opposed to the entire report. I don't understand the need for any of this. Why are we trying to buff sleeplocks? It's a terrible mechanic in general, and foundationally imbalanced due to how it locks out any counters once you are successful. ---on 2/27 @ 06:11 writes: I don't see how hate for the mechanic of sleeplock has to translate for rejection of all proposals in here. Solution 2 just wants to translate SMOKE COLTSFOOT to remove insomnia into RELAX INSOMNIA, and though it doesn't delete anything fighters can do with that mechanic as it is mere conversion, it removes need of coltsfoot pipe (which I thought was in line with overhaul goals). Stigmata and control don't only make a person immune to a sleeplock, they make a person immune to sleep itself. Sleep, on its own, is a valid way of delaying curing/offense, which I believe should stay. You are correct in pointing out the foundational imbalance of sleeplock, however, these solutions strengthen the ability of just sleep without the lock by removing immunities which (in my perspective) is a proper step to the removal of the need for the lock itself. We could just delete sleeplocks for all I care, however, that would make some classes difficult to enjoy for most and such the provision of alternatives before removal is always preferred. ---on 2/27 @ 16:35 writes: This report really should have been 3 separate reports. I don't understand this fascination with combining 3 things that are fundamentally different in one report. I agree that sleep can be an important affliction, but inevitably, anything that buffs sleep -also- buffs sleeplocks and thus sleeplocks need to be considered. Control is limited to 1 tertiarty. One tertiary being immune to sleeplocks isn't going to make/break anything. I don't see why we need to remove coltsfoot pipes for insomnia. Making a relax insomnia command is fine as long as it requires eq/bal just like smoking coltsfoot requires herb balance to be effective. I don't understand why stigmata is being requested to being changed here. ---on 3/1 @ 01:29 writes: Solution 1 only. The other parts of this report can be discussed in separate reports. ---on 3/22 @ 10:25 writes: I realized that I didn't articulate my support of solution 2 clearly before. I would go insane if we had to keep an extra pipe just to remove insomnia. It would be a bit odd to go through all of these changes for the overhaul and have that be our final state. I fully support solution 2, it sounds like soon solution 1 will not be relevant, and in my opinion solution 3 should not be considered at all for the reasons that Synkarin stated. If the fates consider all three solutions to this report then they will essentially be approving the use future multi-faceted reports like this one in the future, because every envoy wants to get the most out of their slot.